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Author Topic: Tranlastion Question for German Speaker  (Read 203 times)
Chris
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« on: February 25, 2011, 01:04:40 PM »

Hi can a German Speaker translate the following 3 texts for me?

Original German:
Immer wenn du die Sonderaktion ?Torf stechen? nutzt, erh?ltst du 1 BW zus?tzlich. Falls du dabei mindestens 1 Pferd und nicht die Torfk?hlerei besitzt, erh?ltst du noch 1 weiteren BW zus?tzlich.

I suggested:
Whenever you use the "Cut Peat" Special action, you receive 1 additional Fuel. If you have at least 1 Horse at the time and don't own the Peat-charcoal Kiln, you receive 2 additional Fuel instead.

(1) I write "2 additional Fuel instead" in the last sentence. How would this English text translate back into German?

Original German:
Immer wenn du zu Beginn einer Runde noch mindestens 3 Moorpl?ttchen hast, erh?ltst du 1 BW. Solltest du nur noch 2 Moorpl?ttchen haben, erh?ltst du den Brennwert nur noch zu Beginn jeder geraden Runde.

I suggested:
Whenever at the start of a round, you have at least 3 Moor tiles on your farm, you receive 1 Fuel. Whenever at the start of an even-numbered round, you have exactly 2 Moor tiles, you receive 1 Fuel.

(2) I use "Whenever" in the second sentence. How would this English text translate back into German?

(3) Finally, can a German Speaker translate this into English?
"Immer wenn du in einer Arbeitszeit an die Reihe kommst und noch insgesamt mindestens 8 Holz auf den Anh?ufungsfeldern ausliegen, erh?ltst du sofort ? also noch vor deiner Personenaktion ? 1 BW. (Anh?ufungsfelder sind Aktionsfelder, auf denen sich Waren oder N?hrwerte anh?ufen.)"

Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 12:29:29 PM by Chris » Logged
pijll
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 01:20:59 PM »

Original German:
Immer wenn du die Sonderaktion ?Torf stechen? nutzt, erh?ltst du 1 BW zus?tzlich. Falls du dabei mindestens 1 Pferd und nicht die Torfk?hlerei besitzt, erh?ltst du noch 1 weiteren BW zus?tzlich.

Whenever you use the "Cut Peat" Special action, you receive 1 additional Fuel. If you have at least 1 Horse at the time and don't own the Peat-charcoal Kiln, you receive another 2 additional Fuel.


Quote
Whenever at the start of an even-numbered round, you have exactly 2 Moor tiles, you receive 1 Fuel.

(2) I use "Whenever" in the second sentence. How would this English text translate back into German?

"Immer wenn du zu Beginn einer geraden Runde noch genau 2 Moorplattchen hast, erhaltst du (auch) 1 BW."

("auch" = "also")

Quote
"Immer wenn du in einer Arbeitszeit an die Reihe kommst und noch insgesamt mindestens 8 Holz auf den Anh?ufungsfeldern ausliegen, erh?ltst du sofort ? also noch vor deiner Personenaktion ? 1 BW. (Anh?ufungsfelder sind Aktionsfelder, auf denen sich Waren oder N?hrwerte anh?ufen.)"
Whenever, at the start of your turn during the work phase, there are at least 8 wood on all accumulation spaces combined, you immediately (before your person's action) receive 1 fuel. (Accumulation spaces are spaces that accumulate goods or food.)

Unfortunately, because the term "person's action" is used, it looks like you don't receive this bonus before a special action, but it's not really clear to me if this is deliberate.

And the last sentence is the standard definition of the term "accumulation space", which will be included on a number of cards in the upcoming revised edition of Agricola. I'm not really satisfied with this text, however, so I would welcome any suggestions how to phrase that better.
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Chris
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 01:45:05 PM »

Thanks pijll.

Could you answer my question 1 again? I want you to translate my English back into German:

Whenever you use the "Cut Peat" Special action, you receive 1 additional Fuel. If you have at least 1 Horse at the time and don't own the Peat-charcoal Kiln, you receive 2 additional Fuel instead.

============

The reason i want you to translate to English texts back into German is because i suggested this two English texts to Uwe and he said, can you submit your suggestion to me in German.

============

Person's Action is deliberate. Uwe is clarifying this card:
http://play-agricola.com/Agricola/Cards/index.php?id=1980
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pijll
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 02:25:53 PM »

Oh, I see.

Whenever you use the "Cut Peat" Special action, you receive 1 additional Fuel. If you have at least 1 Horse at the time and don't own the Peat-charcoal Kiln, you receive 2 additional Fuel instead.

Immer wenn du die Sonderaktion ?Torf stechen? nutzt, erh?ltst du 1 BW zus?tzlich. Falls du dabei mindestens 1 Pferd und nicht die Torfk?hlerei besitzt, erh?ltst du stattdessen 2 BW zus?tzlich.

Quote
Person's Action is deliberate. Uwe is clarifying this card:
http://play-agricola.com/Agricola/Cards/index.php?id=1980
I thought it was a bad phrase then, I think it's one now. If it's a condition that it has to be a person's action, it should go at the start of the sentence. If it isn't, it's confusing.
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Chris
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2011, 03:03:44 PM »

I also agree its phrased bad. I think the text should just say:
Whenever you place a person and there are at least 8 Wood on all the Accumulation spaces together, you immediately receive 1 Fuel before using the action.

Do you agree? And if so, how do you say that in German?

Here was Uwe's German text before the one I posted above:
Immer wenn du eine Person einsetzen musst und noch insgesamt mindestens 8 Holz auf den Anhaufungsfeldern ausliegen, erhaltst du sofort - also noch vor deiner Personenaktion - 1 BW. (Anhaufungsfelder sind Aktionsfelder, auf denen sich Waren oder Nahrwerte anhaufen.)
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pijll
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2011, 11:35:13 AM »

I also agree its phrased bad. I think the text should just say:
Whenever you place a person and there are at least 8 Wood on all the Accumulation spaces together, you immediately receive 1 Fuel before using the action.

Do you agree? And if so, how do you say that in German?
Yes.

"Immer wenn du eine Person einsetzt, und (vor diese Aktion) noch insgesamt mindenstens 8 Holz auf den Anh.feldern ausliegen..."
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zlorfik
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2011, 03:45:30 AM »

Thanks pijll.

Could you answer my question 1 again? I want you to translate my English back into German:

Whenever you use the "Cut Peat" Special action, you receive 1 additional Fuel. If you have at least 1 Horse at the time and don't own the Peat-charcoal Kiln, you receive 2 additional Fuel instead.

============

The reason i want you to translate to English texts back into German is because i suggested this two English texts to Uwe and he said, can you submit your suggestion to me in German.

I only just now realized that you changed my translation of Peat Cart citing that "another" is not Agricola language.

I modeled my translation off Peat-charcoal Kiln itself, which does say that "If you have at least one horse at the time, you receive another 1 Fuel."
So i propose to not suggest your change to Uwe but have the minor have the same text as the major with the similar effect.
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mazarin
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2011, 11:44:52 PM »

Hi Pjill,

You say you are not happy with the phrase " (Accumulation spaces are spaces that accumulate goods or food.)"

Can you tell us some more why you are not happy with it?
It looks like a good definition to me, the only problem I would have with it is that I think historically the definition of " Goods" is not clear.
But the definition of " goods" should be made more clear in the rules, not on the card.

But just as an ordinary player, this phrase looks OK for me at the moment.
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pijll
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 01:55:00 PM »

You say you are not happy with the phrase " (Accumulation spaces are spaces that accumulate goods or food.)"

Can you tell us some more why you are not happy with it?
It's too tautological to be of much use to people who don't understand the word "accumulation space" to begin with.
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mazarin
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 09:11:57 PM »

Hi Pjill,

I understand what you mean, but I don't think I agree with you. You are defining the compound noun "Accumulation space". The definition of this compound noun includes the word "accumulate" because that is what the space does. The definition of "Accumulation space" does not (in my opinion) need to define the word "accumulate". "Accumulate" is a verb that is easily found in any dictionary.

To give another example, "swimming pool" is also a compound noun. A definition of this noun would only rarely define "swimming". A definition of "swimming pool" may try to define the word "pool" because the word "pool" has multiple meanings.
Do you think either of the words "accumulation" or "space" are ambiguous enough, or have enough multiple meanings to require a definition?
In my opinion if the designers want to be more clear  the best place to give a definition  of "accumulate" or "space" would be in the rules or the compendium, not on the card.

Definitions:
Accumulation space: something that accumulates goods and food
Goods: All building resources, grain, vegetables, and animals ( is this correct?)
Building resources: Reed, Stone, Wood, Clay
Animals: Sheep, Boar, Cows, Horses (except minor improvement horse and) ( lamas  Smiley )
Accumulate: to increase goods or food by successive addition
space: Any action space on the board, also any space added to the playing area by any card.

Ok, I hope this is clear that I am trying to be helpful, not just trying to have an argument with you. If I had a better phrase for "accumulation space" I would tell you, but I honestly think the phrase you have is good.
I wish the best success with the revision, not least because I always want the best playing experience. Smiley



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